Episode 13: Ross Bellenoit

Bub & Pop | Episode 13: Ross Bellenoit (recorded March 3, 2026)

Ross Bellenoit plays guitar in Muscle Tough — though good luck telling who's playing what on their records, or with your eyes shut at the show. For twenty years he's also been one of Philadelphia's most-called guitarists, and a lot of the guitar tone and harmonic scaffolding under the Americana that came out of this city in the early aughts is his: Amos Lee, Birdie Busch, Chris Kasper, and the production chair at Turtle Studios.

We open on the injury that knocked him off the road for a stretch — since healed, thankfully — and go from there. What a guitarist does when he can't play guitar. The five-year record he finally let himself put guitar solos on. Why he left Spotify for Tidal and won't give an inch on AI. And how Muscle Tough only exists because the two guys he actually wanted for the gig both had weddings that night. Also Gustav Mahler, and a Zeppelin medley that started as a joke.

New original music under his own name is coming sometime next year. And get ready to Get Tough with Ross and the boys later this year.

An audio-first version of this podcast is available here.

Ross Bellenoit | Website | Instagram | YouTube | Bandcamp | Facebook | Signals (2024)

Muscle Tough | Website | Instagram

Also mentioned: Birdie Busch | Caroline Rose

Bub & Pop | Website | YouTube | Instagram | TikTok | Facebook | X | Threads | LinkedIn | Audio-first | Discord

Host: Matt Hoffman | Producer: Tedd Kanakaris | Location: The Boom Room

TRANSCRIPT (lightly QC'ed)

Matt Hoffman [0:00]

Hi, I'm Matt Hoffman, and this is the Bub & Pop podcast where we talk about music, careers in music, life, the universe and everything. Well, so talk to me about your arm.

Ross Bellenoit [0:24]

What happened? Yes. Oh my goodness. I was in. You know, it was funny, I was doing. What happened was I was in a I was doing a theater gig for about two months. This, this theater in Malvern called The People's Light, and it was a production of Christmas Carol, and it was a really great show. But then, but the the last show was the Sunday matinee, and, we had, like, a big cast celebration at the end.

And then, I was driving home and I was like, oh, great. You know, I'm done. I can just, like, get back to my regular schedule. It was a lot of back and forth to, 40 minutes each way. And, I also was leasing an electric car at the time, and I don't have a charger at my house. So it was this constant, like, like spending an hour at different chargers, trying to just going back and forth because it was just a lot of driving and a lot of miles.

And so I was constantly complaining about the car and and then the next day I was supposed to start my teaching schedule, and I was like, after the few months that I've had, with all the family stuff happening, I was like, man, I could just use a week off to process everything. And so I think the universe just heard me complaining and was like, oh, you don't like your car?

Oh, you want a break? Bam, bam. So I'm like, driving home on 76 and, it's just heavy traffic. You know, it's a Sunday, late evening, and, I'm in the. I'm in the passing lane, and everybody's going around, like, probably between 50 and 60. You know, they have all those new speed limits posted and stuff, and I've got a good car lengths in front of me, the guy in front of me and the guy in front of him, apparently because I couldn't see the guy in front of him, but they both slammed on their brakes to a complete stop.

Wow. Like out of nowhere. And I just didn't. There was just not enough time for me to slow down. I like, slammed on the brakes and I was like, oh, this is nope, this is not gonna. All right, here we go. And just rammed into the guy, probably between 30 to 40 miles an hour. And, apparently when you're in a car accident, you're supposed to take your hands off the wheel.

Which is because I was. I was bracing myself from the impact, and, you're supposed to, like, put your hands up and you're like, over your face and, like, on your chest to protect your face or to protect your hands from like. And I think I was just holding on to the wheel and the impact of the it just like it just like I got like a eight stitches all around my thumb and a, like a hairline fracture at the base of my thumb.

So thankfully I was that was thankfully, that was it. And I was the only one injured in the accident because two more people rammed into me from behind. So it was like a four car pileup on 76. And even the lead actor in the theater, he was driving home and he drove by it. And and then he saw my post about what had happened.

He was like, oh, my God, I drove by you. And I felt like, man, that poor guy.

Matt Hoffman [3:42]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [3:43]

And I had no idea it was. He was like, Holy crap. Which was. Yeah, it just it just really sucked. So I, I had a follow up appointment. They were, they they wanted me to get an MRI. It took weeks to get an MRI scheduled. Just because the way our health care system is. And, so by the end of January, I got an MRI.

And then, because the way our health care system is, it took weeks for the two hospitals to, like, get the results to the other person. And then they finally got it and they saw what was actually happening. And I had surgery, on my hand last, not this past Thursday, the Thursday before on the 19th. And so I have like a pin in my hand that's just like helping the fracture heal.

But the ligament didn't need to be repaired, which is good. So, I'll be in this till the end of March, and then I have a few months of physical therapy that I'll need to do. But I basically have to, like, not play. I mean, I won't really be able to play any gigs until the summer.

Matt Hoffman [4:51]

Wow.

Ross Bellenoit [4:52]

So the whole. The whole spring. We had we had, Muscle Tough shows lined up. A couple different weekend runs. I had a few other different gigs, some recording projects, and, it all kind of had to get shifted to the to the fall. Yeah. So. Wow. Scheduled.

Matt Hoffman [5:13]

So had you. I mean, is there a universe where you go out and play something somehow, like on a keyboard or other than guitar?

Ross Bellenoit [5:22]

Maybe that that hasn't really presented itself yet. I have given I have I have made that suggestion to, to a couple different people that would be like, I have a I have a friend of mine, who it's a songwriter that I've been playing with for years, a really good friend of mine, Birdie Busch, and she just finished a record that we all recorded on and stuff, and they were trying to schedule the record release, and I, I offered it.

I was like, if it happens before June, I just still want to be there and be a part of it. So like, I'll just get up and play some little keyboard lines. And just like, I just want to be on stage and and sing harmony vocals and all that stuff, but like, I just can't play guitar, but I'll. I'll do other stuff.

Yeah, yeah. And actually, when I had the full cast on, I was recording, I was trying to record some stuff at home on a different project, and I found that, my tambourine skills, like, it was a good thwack, for the for the, for the upbeat to, like, thwack against the cast. It was like a it was a nice tone.

Matt Hoffman [6:24]

Nice. And you never would have known that, right? If not.

Ross Bellenoit [6:26]

Yeah I know, yeah, exactly.

Matt Hoffman [6:27]

Amazing. Well, there's. Yeah, there's a bass player I know who severely injured his arm for a while, but was able to play synth bass on a few, records. It's just not quite the same with guitar.

Ross Bellenoit [6:39]

No it's. No. Yeah. I mean, because synth bass is a very it's it's its own, it's really its own instrument, but like. Synth guitar is like. It's it. It needs to sound a certain way. And it's like they they still haven't quite really mastered what that is. And I haven't seen anything that's really convincing or anything.

Yeah. There was one track I've been working on with my friend Caroline. That and I found a little, like, sort of out, out of tune guitar, ukulele patch. And I was like, actually, this is pretty cool. And so I put it in there, and I was like, it kind of sounds like a real, a real thing, but it's it's it's rare.

It's rare that that happens.

Matt Hoffman [7:21]

So have you have you ever tried recording any of your own sounds into, a modeler or synth or anything like that?

Ross Bellenoit [7:29]

No, I haven't I haven't gotten there yet. I'm still, I'm, I'm, on the technical end of things. I'm still pretty, like, pretty bare bones, even though, like, in Muscle Tough, we have all these pedals and stuff.

Matt Hoffman [7:44]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [7:44]

Yeah, Constantly, both me and John will just turn to Joe and be like, what do you think we should? I wish because Joe is. Joe knows Joe's the smartest of the three of us. And he's like, well, you should probably do this and think about wiring it this way and like, don't drive the, watch your game settings and stuff.

And you know he's he's great.

Matt Hoffman [8:04]

Yeah. How big is the is your pedalboard at this point would you say how many individual pieces.

Ross Bellenoit [8:09]

Well the Muscle Tough board is specifically for Muscle Tough. Like I don't really cart it out for for any other projects. Unless it's unless it's absolutely called for, because now so much of the board is, is dedicated to specific things that we are now like, like I'm now like writing for these certain sounds that I have.

So they're kind of dedicated to the band. But God, if I had to count, I haven't looked at my my board in months because I haven't been able to been able to use it. But it's, I want to say there's ten. No more than ten. 12, 12. 14 pedals. You know, there's like two different gain pedals, two different pitch pedals. There's, there's what I call chaos pedals. So they're like little granular delay things that like, take what you play and kind of like, spit it out and like. Like drunk. You know, stuff like that. And, I have like, 1 or 2 of those and then, and then I have one of the sort of at the end of everything. And, I have like a, it's like the Line 6 effects that is mostly dedicated to, like, modulation and delays. So I can, like, sort of set timed delays for certain things or like, or just, other wacky stuff that's in there, ring mods and all that.

So, yeah.

Matt Hoffman [9:43]

Is there, I'm curious who makes the, like, the wacky randomness pedals that you use?

Ross Bellenoit [9:49]

Well, the the one that I've been, I've been using a lot, particularly in, like, tunes like Pot Brownies or like, if I just want some extra level of chaos going underneath something and constantly I'll, I use it interactively. So, like, I'll play a line and I'll hear what it spits out and then try to, like.

Ross Bellenoit [10:10]

Mimic or catch what it's doing in a certain way that's like, more naturally musical. Yeah. So it's just like a constant, like, idea generator. But the one that I've been using is, I believe I believe actually, I, I can't remember who makes the pedal. It's called the the, the Charlie Foxtrot. I think that's what it's called.

I believe it's Catalinbread, I, I but don't call me on that. Yeah, I don't know.

Matt Hoffman [10:38]

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. No, that's. I mean, it's funny, so I feel like a big part of the kind of AI, creation, whatever you want to call it. Debate, debates, even. Not a strong enough kind of way of describing it. Yeah. But I feel like a lot of what's just uniquely human has a lot to do with randomness and just kind of who knows where the hell, ideas and inspiration.

Ross Bellenoit [11:05]

Yeah, completely. Being completely in the moment.

Matt Hoffman [11:07]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But on the other hand, it is. I find it interesting that like, like I've got some kind of random, noise generator type tools myself. And you never know when you hear something where it's like, oh, that's cool. And then it, it's. So I feel like when done well, it can be this kind of, helpful pairing.

Ross Bellenoit [11:26]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean.

Matt Hoffman [11:29]

Counterpoint.

Ross Bellenoit [11:29]

Don't get. Don't get me. Don't get me started on the whole AI thing. I'm. I'm absolutely not.. Not into it.

Matt Hoffman [11:38]

Can you tell me more?

Ross Bellenoit [11:41]

I. Well, particularly in the sense of AI generating, like, generating content, generated content on streaming platforms and and just like, it's really it's it's like any AI generated art, it's just taking. It's stealing. It's stealing people's ideas and creating something and then making a profit out of it.

And like, who gets that profit? The people that it takes, it takes it from. Don't see any of that. So it's like, I dumped my Spotify years ago, because, I mean, I knew it was heading this direction, but, I mean, for so many other reasons, I dumped Spotify and I switched over to, to Tidal, which is, it's still small potatoes, but, it, it's it's a high quality stream, and, and the library is the same, like it's, it's no it's no different.

And there's, there's credits. So you can see who's playing on what. You know, if, if the artist fills all that stuff out correctly. Sure. You know. So because like, I, I grew up in the 80s and I like, I, I loved looking through liner notes and and seeing who did what. And that's a whole part of listening to records that's kind of lost these days.

Matt Hoffman [12:59]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [13:00]

But like the but yeah, the whole AI thing is just, there's so many other reasons musically, politically, I just know okay. No, I'm not I'm not a fan of, although the one thing that I've heard is that it is it is doing some pretty miraculous things in the medical field, which is an interesting thing.

But that's just something I've heard from some people who know a lot more than I do about it, that they were saying that it's it's leading to some significant, breakthroughs and it's going to help the health industry a lot. But I you know, still, the vibe creeps me out. It's like we all grew up with Terminator two, and.

Matt Hoffman [13:41]

It's like.

Ross Bellenoit [13:41]

In the back of our minds, it's like that. You can't like, undo that. Like, that's like, we all kind of can see where this could go.

Matt Hoffman [13:52]

Well, yeah. If I were to say just off the top of your head, think of a movie where AI took over and it was a good thing.

Ross Bellenoit [13:58]

Right? You you can't. That's right. You can't. Even before Terminator, you have the 2001.

Matt Hoffman [14:05]

Yeah, yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [14:06]

The computer malfunction. Yeah. You know.

Matt Hoffman [14:16]

Sorry. Can't do that, Dave. Sorry, Hal. Well, so remind me when the accident happened, was it like December?

Ross Bellenoit [14:21]

January 4th? Okay. Yeah.

Matt Hoffman [14:23]

So have you been have you been pivoting more to production rather than performance?

Ross Bellenoit [14:28]

Yeah, a little bit. I mean, thankfully I was, after a few, I, I needed a few weeks to sort of really recover and recuperate from what, what had happened. But, thankfully, I was able to still maintain my teaching job, which is, it's it's it's enough to, to to, it's it's not it's medium potatoes.

It's not small potatoes, it's not large potatoes, it's medium potatoes. But, thankfully I also like just in the first sort of week or so of the accident, I was like really struggling with depression and anxiety about my health and all, and like what I was going to do for the next because it was just so unclear.

So I started this little like, like a GoFundMe campaign and like, I'm just floored with, like, how supportive the music community was and like, really just kind of gave me a real cushion to sort of be able to just like live for the next few months and like, and not have to worry about paying bills and, just keeping things rolling.

You know, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So so that's that was really a blessing. But yeah, it started in early January. It happened early January. And it was like the weekend before. I also got that awful norovirus that was going around, which was I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It was it was the most awful 48 hours I had ever had.

I was actually in the middle of the the theater show and the in the middle of the second act. And because we're like, we're in the, in the like the little loft space on stage. And I looked at the music director and I was like, all right, I, something's not right. And I think I know what this is like because he's like immediately get like the chills and you start and he's just like, what?

What's happening? You know, and so I don't think I'm ever going to eat any food from a Dunkin Donuts ever again.

Matt Hoffman [16:34]

No, no, that's one one.

Ross Bellenoit [16:36]

Pretty sure that's how I got that. Yeah. So. So it's just been, like, a real rough kind of month. And then in December, too. I mean, not to get super personal, but, like, I lost my mom to, to, cancer, and, she had been. She had been diagnosed about like, a year and a half, and she had been through a couple rounds of chemo.

And then, like, after Thanksgiving, things really started to go downhill. So, like, we, I had to spend a week up in December. We were all able to be there with her when she passed and she was in home care and, just making sure she was comfortable till the till she left us. And so it was like a real it's been a real emotional roller coaster of a winter, dealing with that and then getting sick and then this. And then it's just been one after another. And then with the accident. I mean, not to, like, this, like, this is like trauma dump here, but like, the accident also, like, really brought to light a couple different other health issues that I had been worried about.

You know, like, I get, like a, like, a numbness in my leg sometimes. And then I sort of freaking out, like, am I having a stroke? What's going on? Yeah. You know, and, thankfully I wasn't, but, figuring out what that is. And just like, because when you're, when you're injured, you're just you're just sitting around a lot and you're not.

It's hard to like, especially in the middle of the winter to like, stay moving and stay active and stuff. So you're you you start to feel like, all right, what's going on with my body? And like, I need to, like, sort of change some things. So I'm like, on a, on a at least, with my doctors, like on a path to sort of like, sort of do a little bit of course correction with that.

That's kind of, be. Be and feel healthier.

Matt Hoffman [18:28]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [18:29]

You know, and now that I've had a few different, appointments like I know what the situation is with everything. So it's a have I have a clearer idea of like where everything at is now.

Matt Hoffman [18:40]

That's that's huge. I mean, without that, you just insert your own facts and they're never good.

Ross Bellenoit [18:44]

Yeah. You go on Google and you're like, I have these symptoms and like, you're dying. And I'm like.

Matt Hoffman [18:49]

No.

Ross Bellenoit [18:52]

Not thankfully. Yeah, exactly. See what I mean? Even the medical field. So yeah. So that's kind of been the situation.

Matt Hoffman [19:00]

Well, so, what kind of projects have you been leaning into? Like, it's so hard to describe what Muscle Tough does, but when you see it and hear it, you get it. So I'm not going to try to describe it here. Sure, sure. I've tried that over like several articles at this point.

Ross Bellenoit [19:13]

Sure.

Matt Hoffman [19:13]

Sure, sure. But, assuming you're not robo clown, disco robo space futuristic, fusion, What are the other kinds of, projects you're working on? It sounds like some of it's more like singer songwriter y.

Ross Bellenoit [19:27]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually, I. Well, this is the thing I sent you last night. I, I, I've been working on a new record of my own stuff. And the the process. It's been a probably five years in the making of of a record. The last solo record I put out was in the middle of the pandemic, and I was really proud of it. And it was this very sort of not streamlined, but very consciously Americana, and like, because I do love really, really like John Prine, Jason Isbell, Peter Mulvey, Joni Mitchell, that's all like really, really great songwriting.

You know, that's I get that. And that's a big source of inspiration for me. But right when the pandemic started, I, I like, like any of us musicians. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to be doing. Yeah. And it was those first few months were like, pretty scary. And before, like any of the government money started kicking in.

You know, I was able to get some of that, but before that, it was like, I just I need to be creating something, I need to be creating something during the day. So I'd go to my home studio in West Philly at the time, and I would just, like, just write a little guitar passage or something. And then because I can just do this at my home studio, I could basically fully form like a complete song in a day.

Like full production. But I didn't have any melody or lyrics because the whole situation was so traumatizing. I was like, I can't write about what's happening, and if I write about anything else, it's going to seem trivial. You know, so like, I basically had about 10 to 12, like a full records worth of material of, of just these song beds, with, with versus choruses, bridges and, all, all fully structured and, but I just had no vocals or melodies on it, so I had all that and had been sitting on it for a while to just sort of get some perspective.

And then, I went to see this was 2023. My wife and I went to see Peter Gabriel on his last tour, and it was unbelievably inspiring. It was like we we had great seats too, but it was like, it was, it was on. It was unreal because half of the show, he was like in the process of putting out a new record, but it was like song by song, and the whole thing hadn't been out, out yet. So he'd maybe released a couple songs. So like, half of this show was all this new material that nobody was really familiar with, and it all was so like, engaging, like and like brilliantly executed.

And he was like, singing really well. Like, he's still in great shape vocally. And it was, it was unbelievable. And so after that I kind of got this sense that like, you know what, I can take all this stuff because a lot of the stuff that I had recorded at the beginning of the pandemic was really, kind of all over the place, kind of like crazy, wacky, just like whatever happens, and not Americana, it was like kind of and anything goes, kitchen sink kind of stuff.

And I was like, if that guy, if Peter Gabriel, if he's in his 70s and he can still be making whatever he wants and doing it with conviction and, authenticity, then if he can do it, then I certainly can give it a shot. And so by that point. Melodies and lyrics started coming and I really kind of made a conscious push to.

Like, really finish the material. And so I then had all these songs written and, these tracks kind of done and I like, brought in my friend Matt Scarano to like, play drums on everything because I really programed drum parts out pretty specifically. And so he came in and just we did a couple days and he tracked everything.

And then I cut all the vocals, at the studio that I was working at at the time to get a good vocal sound. It's not my house, because that's a big difference in records. And, and then and then for like two songs, I had, like, a whole gang of, like, 20 of my best friends who are great singers in a room, like group vocals, singing a couple things, and it sounds phenomenal.

And, and then I brought in my wife's string quartet to play on one song and it's just it's gorgeous. And. Yeah, it was really, it was really a whole process of, of like five years. And I just got it, actually just just got it mastered, which is what I just said. Oh, awesome. That's that's what that's that's sort of where it's at, right?

Matt Hoffman [24:31]

Oh. Super cool. I haven't had a chance to listen. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Ross Bellenoit [24:35]

Yeah. It's definitely it's very different than what you would expect from Muscle Tough. But it's, but it's, it's got some, it's got guitar solos.

Matt Hoffman [24:44]

On it, which I.

Ross Bellenoit [24:45]

I, I, I have been avoiding for years and some of my own singer songwriter records, but like, it's, it's got some shredding moments in it.

Matt Hoffman [24:53]

Why have you been avoiding.

Ross Bellenoit [24:57]

I don't know. I just, I don't know, I don't know if it was a thing that, like, I think I was just trying to sort of fit into a certain thing. Sure. You know, if there were guitar guitar solos, it was very, like, composed and sort of written as. Like sort of like a hook. You know, that kind of thing. And, and it's like, I mean, in the, the last sort of 15 years or so, it's like guitar solos, kind of like dropped by the wayside.

Oh, yeah. You know, and a lot of major production, it's like kind of like, it hasn't been a thing in a way that, like, once the 90s came along. Like, people really avoided the saxophone.

Matt Hoffman [25:39]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [25:40]

In their records, where before that it was like, everybody gets a sax solo.

Matt Hoffman [25:44]

Yeah, exactly. You know, well. And, like, if only everybody were doing it, like, morphine or something. Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [25:50]

Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Talk about. Cool. Yeah. You know.

Matt Hoffman [25:54]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [25:59]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that that project is sort of. I'm sort of trying to I'm putting the funds together to put out a vinyl of that. Oh, and I don't know if that's going to be the end of this year or sometime next year. Like, do a little push, to, like, hire a proper PR team and, and, like, really, really put it out there.

Matt Hoffman [26:20]

Oh.

Ross Bellenoit [26:20]

Super cool. Maybe get some sort of video content. I don't know. That's that's plants. You know what what what I can afford. Yeah. But. But that's. But. Yeah, all the artwork's done and everything, and it's it's it's it's going to be pretty cool. I'm pretty proud of it.

Matt Hoffman [26:33]

Oh.

Ross Bellenoit [26:34]

Super cool. And, so that's a project I'm working on. I'm producing full length records for two other artists, Caroline Quinn and Brian Kelly. And they, we kind of had to, like, put everything on pause once the accident happened. But we're we're slowly moving things forward, and, just getting doing all the things other than guitar tracking that we can do right now, so.

Sure. But, yeah. So I've got a couple things, and I. And I've got, like, a, this thing that I've been doing for, like, since since the pandemic. A good friend of mine. This guy, Alex Mitnick, who has this group called Alex and the Kaleidoscope, and he does kids music, and I've been working with him since, like, 2013 and producing all his stuff.

And he's just, like, a great dude, great songwriter. And he writes music for kids that he. It just doesn't dumb down for kids. It's like he tries to bring the kids up to like, hey, like he's got really great songs about like, gratitude and diversity and stuff, and it's it's just really great.

And we've been, in the, in the pandemic, we got this gig where, we're making original content for a toy that's sold in targets, like around the country called the Toniebox. And it's like this little screen free device. It's just like a little speaker and it's like sort of color. It's got colors and it's like got a little weird shape to it.

And they sell. That's the Toniebox. And then you sell, they sell Tony's, which are these little figurines that when you attach the figurine to the speaker, it triggers an audio experience for the kid. And these are like full length records of material. Wow. And we've done about like ten of these for for the company.

Matt Hoffman [28:29]

And how did that make it? Make it your way?

Ross Bellenoit [28:32]

It was just through Alex and his some of his connections through people who were in the business. And they they thought of Alex for this. And so we've been we've been doing a bunch of stuff for them. So I'm in the middle of doing another one for them right now. So that's, that's something that I can chip away at, slowly with, with a mouse in one hand and, and playing some keys and stuff.

So, it's, it's a, I mean, I have worked to sort of like keep me going in a certain way.

Matt Hoffman [29:00]

Sure, sure.

Ross Bellenoit [29:01]

Yeah.

Matt Hoffman [29:02]

Well. and so, I'm thinking about the different projects. You've obviously got Muscle Tough, the robotic, futuristic. Yeah, etc.. You've got your singer songwriter thing and I know you've got a long history in that going back to like, the aughts, right?

Ross Bellenoit [29:18]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Hoffman [29:19]

What about any of the jazz related stuff? I know that you played a well, did you play a show at Chris's or did you have to cancel that?

Ross Bellenoit [29:26]

No, no, I had a show. Well, I did a show at Chris's, last October. Okay. Which was like. It was like my show. So I was going to play at Chris's in January, okay. With Jake Kaplan for his night. And it was more of a, like, a looser. Just bring in a couple tunes we'll read and we'll just have fun. It's like a laid set, for low, low key.

But no, I actually, because when I put out signals, in, I guess it was 24. Within the next few months, I had the next record of jazz material written like I. It was just like clearing the decks. And I like and like the process of rehearsing the band and doing the show. That summer, like the release show.

It was just so positive, and I just started to have a bunch more ideas and, and then just materials started coming, so I, I, I wrote, a good 7 to 9 different songs, that I would definitely want to do another jazz record. Is and but it's like anything with the amount of stuff that I do, it's just balancing the time.

Yeah. You know, because, I always find that, like, if I'm doing one thing too much and not, like, not keeping myself diversified enough, then I start to get a little restless, and it's like I start to sort of get a little like, I miss that or I miss that. You know, it's like I have to because it's it's it's so hard to find one project that satisfies all the creative itches.

Sure. You know, I still dream about this idea that one day we're just going to do a surprise muscle. Tough gig, and we're all going to sing.

Matt Hoffman [31:15]

Oh.

Ross Bellenoit [31:16]

And it'll all be, like, original material. Wow.. But that. I told the guys this in the band that one day, one day we're going to do it. And it's really just got to depend on when and how.

Matt Hoffman [31:29]

You.

Ross Bellenoit [31:29]

Know. So because I kind of just want it to be a total surprise. Like, like it'll be like, oh, we're gonna go see Muscle Tough and be like, what? You know, like, I just want to. I just want to just try that.

Matt Hoffman [31:44]

Do you like, have you written lyrics to any of the Muscle Tough tunes? Oh, God. No. Okay.

Ross Bellenoit [31:48]

No, no, it's too complicated. No.. It's usually if there are any lyrics. It's just the title of the song. In the in the in the melody of whatever we're playing just over and over again. Yeah. There's actually I do when we play too busy for jail, I do. I am just. Too busy for jail. Yeah. That's just that's that's. I'm always singing it to myself on stage to try to get John to laugh, so. Yeah.

Matt Hoffman [32:24]

What, what do you miss about the singer songwriter stuff when you feel like, that played starting to get a little wobbly?

Ross Bellenoit [32:39]

It's. Well, I do really like singing, and I, I feel like, I mean, when I first started learning and writing songs, 20 something years ago, I was very shy about my vocal capabilities, and, like, I didn't. I feel like I didn't really find My voice until I started, honestly. Like till I started going to, the Fergie's open mic like 15 years ago or something.

It was like there's a great scene that was happening at that time, like 2010 through 2013. There was like a crew that would show up at Fergie's open mic, on a Monday, and we would all hang out and like, it was always a test for me to be like, all right, I've got a new song if I can, because it's, it's a, it's a pub. So it's like people are hanging out and talking, but it's like, if I get on stage and say, all right, we're up next Ross Bell and want and like, and if I can get everybody's attention within the first 20s of the song, then I'm like, okay, this is one worth keeping, or worth paying attention to.

And, and, and a lot of that is how the song is written, and a lot of it is how the song is delivered. So I feel like through doing a bunch of that over a few years, like I kind of found my voice. So, and I it was always it was great because our, my very good friend Allie Wadsworth, who's an incredible, incredible vocalist, she would be bartending.

And so she was like the most encouraging. I'd be like, you. Yeah. You know, like you're crushing, like she was it was always this just the greatest feedback. And I'm like, coming from a really good vocalist. I was like, that meant a lot to me. And in those times.

Matt Hoffman [34:24]

So that's amazing.

Ross Bellenoit [34:25]

Yeah. So you know, I really I really enjoy doing that. Plus I for my singer songwriter stuff, I usually sing with my friend, Sonia Sophia. Because we do a lot of harmony singing together. And I love singing harmony, so it's like, I miss I miss that a lot, too. So. Yeah. So I think the last, like, real like I did a run of shows in 23.

With some a band I put together up in New England. We did so like Boston, Western Massachusetts and and some shows, and it was so fun. And I was just like, this is like, I, I would do this more if I could. So yeah.

Matt Hoffman [35:05]

Now was, wasn't that also where you sort of cut your teeth like first because you were a, you went to UArts, is that right?

Ross Bellenoit [35:12]

Yeah, I went to I went to UArts but I grew I grew up in western Massachusetts, like just outside of the few towns outside of Northampton. Oh, sure. You know, I.

Matt Hoffman [35:20]

Worked in Great Barrington for a summer.

Ross Bellenoit [35:22]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, I would, I would go to Tanglewood as a kid. Yeah. I was a big, when I was like, between the ages of eight and 13, I was a huge classical music nut. Oh, wow. I played like, I studied classical guitar and I played, I studied viola, and I was in, like, the youth orchestra. But I wanted to be a conductor.

Matt Hoffman [35:42]

Mm.

Ross Bellenoit [35:43]

And my mom would take me to every single Springfield Symphony Orchestra concert. Tanglewood to see all these great orchestras coming through. And, I did a couple little arts camps and like Pittsfield, Lenox, that area. And, yeah. So and I went to a performing arts high school, and that was just like a very formative experience of, like, being a musician.

Oh, sure. Yeah. And actually, my my then high school music, jazz music director. I still work for. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he he runs a company, and I, called Rock Voices, which is like a big sort of like community choir that does rock and roll. And, he I sometimes he'll need karaoke tracks done of, like, certain songs and different keys, and I like, I go all in, really.

Matt Hoffman [36:37]

Try.

Ross Bellenoit [36:38]

To. I got a great version of, Christopher Cross's Sailing that.

Matt Hoffman [36:42]

It's like.

Ross Bellenoit [36:44]

Yeah, it sounds. Exactly. Like the OG recording. It's like, man, I'm. I'm proud of that one.

Matt Hoffman [36:48]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [36:48]

Heck, yeah. You know, and like, like, learning the actual how they recorded the Bohemian Rhapsody guitar parts and, all that kind of stuff and, really making it sound just like the record and stuff. So I do stuff for him, too. So, but yeah, that's kind of that's kind of where I grew up.

And did, I had some really good teachers up there, and I went to UMass for a year after high school and then took a year off and then moved down here to go to UArts. Okay. Yeah.

Matt Hoffman [37:17]

And that was so 2003. Okay. Right. Yeah. And did you start working with, Amos Lee, like, right out of the.

Ross Bellenoit [37:25]

He was one of the first people I met, actually. Yeah, actually, because the guy, my really one of my best friends, Jared Wolski, who's a great keyboardist, he had just started playing with Amos, and he had moved down here a year before I did. So I came down to audition in like March of 2003, and Jan was like, I got this rehearsal with this guy.

Just come sit in. You know? And it was at this house on 13th and Christian, which ended up being, like, just a center of, like, music and different songwriters living there, coming through, making records. And. Yeah. Amos, it was a rehearsal with Amos, so I just got to meet him right off the bat. Jimmy Coleman was playing drums.

Devin Greenwood was playing keys. Jared was playing bass. He played bass for a while until he moved, switched over to keys and became his musical director. But, yeah, it was just like I wasn't even moved yet. And I already met this and incredible scene of. Yeah, of songwriters and musicians. And so when I moved down here to go to school, I just immediately started playing with all these guys.

I would Amos would play had like a monthly gig at the Tin Angel, and at the end he'd always, like, invite people up at the end to like, come and jam and and like, just be a part of the end of the show. And so I'd get up there. Jay Davidson would get up there, and it was always just a blast. And, and then started playing with just this great scene of songwriters like, Birdie Busch again, Chris Kasper, Adrian Ratio, Mia Johnson, all these like, really a great selection of songwriters in that scene.

In like a particular time of the Philly music scene that was like really, really blossoming from that. And, yeah. So I would be, like, studying, intense jazz guitar at UArts. And then at night, I'd be, like, accompanying songwriters at all these different gigs at the Tin Angel World Cafe and all that stuff.

Wow. So.

Matt Hoffman [39:31]

And that was you pretty much did that straight through, until the point where you, picked up the phone, called. Was it Joe was your first call for muscle? Tough. The.

Ross Bellenoit [39:44]

We. I don't know if I should tell this story again. Because they I don't I'm sure they don't like it, but, I had the band name and a night booked at time, and, and there were two other guys that I was like. I was like, oh, we should we should do some trio gigs. So I booked the night and I called them and they were both. They both had wedding gigs.

Matt Hoffman [40:12]

I think Jonathan's told me this.

Ross Bellenoit [40:13]

Yeah, I'm sure Jon has said and I had and but I had been playing with Joe a bunch before, but in a very different sort of setting and like with my own stuff. And it was like kind of rock and and, and in his I briefly was in one of his bands, Early Ape with Nate Rylan. That was like real sort of like power pop.

Super fun, super fun band. And, so I, I called Joe and I called John because I had just met John, maybe just like a few months before. Like we were doing I, we were on one gig together. It was like a ki session taping at, WXPN, for this guy Kwesi. And, we both retell the story because it was the, the polar vortex that day.

Matt Hoffman [41:06]

Oh, yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [41:07]

And, somehow, somehow, I remembered what the code was to, like, get in the door to, like, get to the studio. And John was apparently very impressed that.

Matt Hoffman [41:15]

I knew that, like, who is this guy?

Ross Bellenoit [41:18]

I was like, I've just done this gig before. I just I remember the code was nice. And, so we get in, we were all set up and like, we start talking about our music likes, and we like the minute, Phish was brought up, like, I'm very selective about who I talk about my Phish fandom, which, and, and so we, we.

Oh, yeah. Chalkdust '98. Camden. Yeah. 99. Camden. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah. And so, like, I had a little whammy. And I just started like doing the thing from that jam and he just I his face lit up. And so I was like, all right, we gotta we should hang sometime. So yeah. So I had this I this night book and I was like, well, I'll call those other guys aren't available.

I'll call Joe and John. Yeah. And they were all in and particularly, particularly with the idea that we have four hours to fill, it's 10 to 2 on a Saturday night, and, it was just like, I just want to have fun, have it be loose. Let's just improvise and just make weird sounds. I just want to make weird sounds.

And if we can get people to dance to weird sounds, even better. You know, that's the whole sort of driving thing behind the band. And, which is really. It's really just developed into this beautiful, like summation of that, which is really great. But so we so we did that and, I, we, we had to sort of figure out, I didn't even because we started, like, what we call the switch, where we, we're not switching instruments, but we're just switching pitches. Yeah. So I pitched down and he pitches up, but I didn't even have a bass stamp at the time. I didn't even think of like, oh, yeah, this might sound a little weird.

So I'm playing through, like a tiny little Princeton tube amp. Wow. And I'm like. And I like, pitch down. And I was like. I was like. I was like, it's like, no. There's no low end to this. So like the next few gigs, John had like a little practice space and he's like, try splitting your signal and plugging into this. And I was like. Oh, here we go. Yeah, here we go. You know. And then I was like, oh, I can really be a bass player now in this band.

Matt Hoffman [43:36]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [43:37]

And he can really play, a guitar leads. And so it's like it really it it really blossomed very quickly. Yeah. The sort of, sort of the ideas and the things that we could do.

Matt Hoffman [43:46]

Sure.

Ross Bellenoit [43:47]

So then it was just a matter of just playing and playing and, stretching out all those nights at a time that we did for years, like, really just helped us develop like, a sense of how we improvise together. And, where we can go with certain things and just developing material. You know, writing material, learning new covers and making them our own and stuff like that.

Matt Hoffman [44:12]

So when, when did you guys start doing, like, the pop, cover thing at the end of a show I've seen? Oh, that's blue. So, Kylie, I've seen all kinds of.

Ross Bellenoit [44:21]

Yeah. No, that was immediately. That was the first gig, I think. I think the first gig we played. Borderline. Madonna's. Madonna's borderline. Yeah. Because I was like, that's just fun. And then we have this other one. We played it on the first gig. We don't trot it out very often, but it's a it's a medley of XTC's, All You Pretty Girls with Beyoncé's Single Ladies. Since all you ladies. And it's just all. And it just goes. They're just kind of connected and they go back and forth into each other. And we did. We did that. The first gig we did, what did we do? The first gig we did Fleetwood Mac's Over and Over. We haven't done that in a long time, but it's a nice ballad.

Yeah, yeah. From from Tusk that we. I was a big Tusk fan and. Yeah. So that's. And then and then certain things would present themselves. We it's like 2018. We did a, an all Fleetwood Mac set. So we took a bunch of Fleetwood Mac songs and like made them made them tough, tough Mac and and so, so now we have all that material that's kind of like stowed away. If we want to. Bring some things out. And then we just recently did this Halloween night where we did, all of the police's synchronicity. Oh, yeah. And so now we have all those tunes. Yeah. Which we, we just started doing. We we started in corporate. We did a little run in December with Too Many Zooz, and we started incorporating some of that into the, into the set as well.

And that was. Yeah. Because that a lot of that was very fruitful as well.

Matt Hoffman [45:46]

Yeah. I heard you guys do a Zeppelin medley at one point too, I think.

Ross Bellenoit [45:49]

Yeah, that was that was like a real gag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did that for a record release. I was like, I remember just listening to a bunch of stuff and being like, wouldn't it be hilarious if you just strung every single Zeppelin riff together in some way? And it was just a joke.

Matt Hoffman [46:05]

Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [46:05]

And then I was like, wait, I think we could. I was just sitting in the back of the van. I was like, I think we could really do this. Yeah. And so it worked. So I went home and I like, really mapped out the sort of how it would go. And then they brought in some other suggestions and things to, to pop in. And it was it, it worked.

Yeah. I couldn't for the life of you remember how it goes now, but it was definitely very, silly.

Matt Hoffman [46:28]

Yeah. Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [46:29]

Yeah. I mean, the whole the band is just like guys. It's just. It's just silly. Silly? It's silly. And fun is a key word. Yeah. So, when we find ourselves getting to, intense or or thoughtful, like, sometimes I just want to, like, pull the rug out and be like, no, no, come on, let's just shake it up.

Yeah. Like fuck.

Matt Hoffman [46:52]

It. Yeah. You know, that's fun, right? It's like a fun kind of layer over the training and the chops and the reps and all that stuff just to keep it fun versus, flashy. Yeah.. Dude, what else haven't we talked about that you that you want to talk about?

Ross Bellenoit [47:10]

I mean, my love of Gustav Mahler probably, but.

Matt Hoffman [47:12]

Yeah. No, that's that's for another way.

Ross Bellenoit [47:14]

That's a that's a whole other that's a whole other show. I've just been in a deep dive.

Matt Hoffman [47:18]

Into.

Ross Bellenoit [47:19]

A few years of his, his work. Yeah.

Matt Hoffman [47:21]

What's what's.

Ross Bellenoit [47:22]

Going. I'm actually we're going to see, Philly do Mahler Two on Saturday.

Matt Hoffman [47:27]

What what about it is is compelling you?

Ross Bellenoit [47:29]

Well, because when I was a young. I don't know if this is just regressing to being a child, but, like, when I was young, I was. I loved classical music. And, like, I would like when we go to the concerts, I would, like, get the score and, like, try to follow along, like while they were playing. And, I just when I was young, I remember we went, we went to see a mall, I think it was Mahler five at a concert.

And it was just, it was too over my head, like harmonically, it's really astounding music. And now that I'm on the other end of, like, having been schooled in harmony and 20th century harmony and, studied jazz and all this stuff, like, I can listen to that music. I started listening to something, one of his pieces, and I was like, oh my God, I'm hearing so much more now and I'm able to like, like follow tonal centers and just by ear and just hear where things are going.

And it's just the orchestration. He's like one of the one of the most brilliant orchestrators for, for symphony orchestra. And it was just really, really great. And like, there's a and so I, I got into his ninth Symphony and that was the one that like just like blew me away. And there's like a couple specific recordings that are just like considered some of the best.

And so I, I just did a deep dive into that piece and it just like there was a point in it, I was like, I'm listening to it. I'm like, that's giant steps. Like, that's like the the way the, the tonal center moves. I was like, that's, that's giant step. So it's like freaking amazing, like the, the level that's in there, and how it all filters through the history.

Matt Hoffman [49:18]

Culture and the Mahler guy I seem to remember he was a big Debussy guy.

Ross Bellenoit [49:21]

Yeah, I think Debussy and I remember I remember reading that Charlie Parker was really into, a lot of classical music. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all the a lot of those cats really were hip to that stuff, because there's, there's a lot in there and especially in mid 20th century, the, the, the crazy kind of music that was being written at that time.

Yeah, avant garde stuff. But yeah. So I just like and I'm like also like an audio file too. So it's like I'm like looking for, like the best recordings of certain pieces here. So like, I've curated like a little collection of like, like these. This is the best recording of that piece.

Matt Hoffman [50:03]

Oh, wow.

Ross Bellenoit [50:03]

So, like, listening on headphones be like, yeah, yeah. It's like the way interpretations are. Yeah. Tempos way different. You know, different conductors interpret different pieces. It's it's fascinating. So I'm just like I've been on a deep dive the last few years.

Matt Hoffman [50:17]

So that's super.

Ross Bellenoit [50:18]

Cool. So in my car like I would get in the last few years. I would just be exclusively listening to classical music. So and when you have a good stereo in your car, it helps too.

Matt Hoffman [50:27]

Yeah. Title, right? Yeah. Yeah. The two together. Well, I'll definitely want to get some of the definitive Mahler nine stuff too. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. It's just beautiful. It's a.

Ross Bellenoit [50:37]

Beautiful music. Like, the first few times that I listened to it, I was like, I'm like, why am I crying? This is so beautiful.

Matt Hoffman [50:46]

You're crying? Yeah.

Ross Bellenoit [50:47]

It's like my wife and I were on our way to driving up to Maine for a honeymoon, and I'm like, have you heard this piece yet? And she's like, no. And we listened to the first movement and we had to like, stop the, the, the recording would be like, can we just process what we just listened to? Because that was unbelievable.

Matt Hoffman [51:03]

Wow.

Ross Bellenoit [51:03]

Yeah. So it's really it's it's really beautiful music.

Matt Hoffman [51:07]

Oh. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, dude, I can't thank you enough for for making the time. Yeah, I feel like I could keep talking a lot longer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll find the time, too, but. Yeah. Thanks for being on the show.

Ross Bellenoit [51:18]

Yeah, thanks for having me.