Episode 10: Cotter Ellis

Bub & Pop | Episode 10: Cotter Ellis (recorded February 28, 2026)

Join music journalist Matt Hoffman for a conversation with Cotter Ellis, jamband veteran and drummer in Goose since 2024. We caught up in Ardmore while he was in town for an Everyone Orchestra run and had a fun conversation about his experiences with Goose, some artists he loves, and Frank Zappa drummers.

An audio-first version of this podcast is available here.

Cotter Ellis | Website | YouTube | Instagram

Host: ⁠⁠⁠Matt Hoffman⁠⁠⁠ | Producer: ⁠⁠⁠Tedd Kanakaris | Location: Rising Sun Presents (Ardmore, PA)

TRANSCRIPT (minimally QC'ed – full disclosure, this one is particularly messy)

00:00:00.440 — 00:00:09.120 · Matt Hoffman

Hi, I'm Matt Hoffman, and this is the Urban Pop podcast where we talk about music, careers in music, life, the universe and everything.

00:00:21.280 — 00:07:55.770 · Matt Hoffman

There's a there's actually a documentary that that just came out about like the first Coral Reefer Band. Um, you know, the guys when it was like just Jimmy on acoustic to like, eventually going up and doing stadiums or whatever. Is that really interesting? Yeah. And like, um, I'm actually writing a review of it for, um, for a magazine I write for, and like, they just had a really, like, great stash of archival video that, like, I think the harmonica player's brother took and like, the guitar players girlfriend.

So they just had all this, like, real before people were used to, you know, having cameras on them all the democracy Time. Um, so yeah, it came out really well. Cool. Um, yeah. What other, uh, are you a fan of his at all?

Cotter Ellis

Yeah. Casual fan? Yeah. Yeah, casual. I think he's awesome. I think the way he did, the way he found success was awesome.

Matt Hoffman

Yeah, it's pretty similar to, like, jam band style. Yeah. It depended and, like, really leaning into his own thing and then getting a following. Yeah. Just like a jam band and. Right. It's not that it hasn't been about the recorded album necessarily for a long time, and it was the record companies calling the shots with him.

Cotter Ellis

So it was kind of like on his own terms kind of guy. Yeah. Which is the fucking dream. Oh for sure. Honestly, I'm sure most people would want it that way. Yeah, but yeah, I respect the attitude about it. Yeah. For sure. Like when I go on vacation to, like, some Caribbean place. Yeah. It's got to be Jimmy Buffett.

Matt Hoffman

It is? Yeah. And it's the vibe. Dude. Yeah. It does. Well, so there's this band, uh, Jammy Buffet was. Well, yeah, I know. Oh, yeah, I played Vermont. Oh, yeah. Oh. That's awesome. Um, I thought it was just Jammy Buffett. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's a trademark thing or something, I think. But, uh. Yeah. So they're guitar players.

Dad, is Peter Mayer the, like, slide guitarist in forever? Dan, that's, um. Yeah. So we had some stories. I'm like, so I'm a huge fan. Um, and I went out for the Kitchen Dwellers run in Denver and, uh, jammy opened for them. And I was like the person in the crowd who knew every word, like the dwellers tunes. I kind of know what I know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, big, uh, big fans.

And Jimmy's, um. What? Uh. Well, so, you know, you talk about, like, sort of being, you know, in a jam band, like, I guess, what are things like for you now compared with, say, three years ago? Right. Like before, you know, you even had thought about maybe joining goose, like. Like a Swede. Yeah. Even playing.

Um, but you know, it, the whole experience has been really awesome. I feel like it's Like the the goose thing has been like stars aligned. Its life is a simulation shit for sure, but also is like there was a moment with my old band where I felt like we were like just starting to get good gigs and felt like, you know, it was happening enough for it to feel like it was successful.

But the whole thing has been amazing. Like we I was an old robot swimmer for ten years and a ton of other bands in Burlington just getting as one of the few drummers, getting a ton of calls. Uh, so like was able to play with all kinds of styles, always get work, like too much work to even take and just like, feel appreciated and explore all these styles and people.

Yeah, um, and like different approaches and all these all like it was just it was a great experience before I was in goose. I don't want it to be like, oh, I was scratching to fucking make sure, you know, it's like I wasn't I wasn't making a ton of money by any means, but it was a lovely experience. And then when swimmer Covid kind of killed swimmer officially, um, we did play after that, but like touring days were over and I kind of.

And then I started playing more weddings and Grateful Dead gigs for like, right when music came back after Covid and I kind of had the like, I finally was out of the mindset of, like, I need to fucking grind to try and make it big. Sure. And then started to be more of like a reflection of like appreciating the situation I worked into.

Like I found myself in through, you know, swimmer and all the other experience I had and like really kind of came to terms with the fact, like, all right, I'm not gonna make it big. Um, um, so but I'm still, like, playing with all these people that are like my true friends. I'm getting paid pretty good money.

Like living comfortably, playing Grateful Dead is not the worst fate. Because you can have a lot of freedom to do what you want with it. You know, it can be just a vehicle for you, just improvising, which is what I love to do most anyway. Um, and even my the wedding band I was in, it was all my fucking, like, best friends.

So we had a great time playing weddings. You know, good or bad. Yeah. It was always like another just adventure. And I really came to terms with it. And as soon as I was like, like, okay, it's fine. Then I got the call and was like, are you fucking kidding me? I can't believe it. It's just weird how life works.

You know? It really is kind of a weird, almost cheesy storybook. Yeah. Tale there. But yeah, man, like that. And obviously it's essentially the same because the goose boys, they're not like divas by any means. They're very similar to the people I've been playing with for 15 years. Very humble, good dudes.

And then trying to like milk or try to like, push the music as much as we can and the, the dance and I love to get deep and trying to make it better just with the vibe is there for sure, and it's a humble vibe. It's very like artistic. It's all the things I look for in a band, and it just happens to have already been successful.

My joint. Sure. And so it's really fucking win win. Yeah. Well, so how is that evolution been in the sense that you've been with them for about two years, right. A year as a four piece. Prior to that you'd been a five piece like I guess, how has that impacted the the evolution for your perspective as the drummer?

I mean, it was it's weird because it's hard to even say because that first year I was it was very overwhelming in a lot of regards. And so like that first year, I was kind of just getting my shit together. And then we had this bingo show where it was like, instead of having a setlist prepared, it was like anything could be called.

And for the record, it was real. Like, we didn't rig the game. It was. It was totally rad, as far as I know. Um, but I didn't have the opportunity. Like, every show before that to prep. Like to nervously prep before the show for every song. And it was like that was finally when I got comfortable. And that was just about the end of it being a five piece.

So it was kind of like. And then when we went into the four piece thing, it was it was like I was already going into that the beginning of 2025. Like, I finally feel comfortable with these tunes and kind of going in with a new confidence and, and so and then like, it just seemed to work really well right off the bat.

It opened up space. And, uh, you know, those we were stoked on those first the winter run last year. And it seems like a lot of the fans were. Yeah. Um, so yeah. And then since then it's just been like.

00:07:56.900 — 00:08:12.660 · Cotter Ellis

the four of us really vibe as people and his musicians. So you know, like for in in the scope of the band, I think I'm probably the least qualified to really give it a good description of how it's changed. Um, just because

00:08:13.820 — 00:08:32.700 · Cotter Ellis

I was still finding my place that first year, you know, regardless of how many pieces were in the band for sure, then this past year has been super fucking awesome and I'm really excited for what's to come. We have some cool stuff on the horizon, you know, shows and new music and all kinds of shit. Um, what's it been.

00:08:32.700 — 00:08:32.940 · Matt Hoffman

Like.

00:08:32.940 — 00:08:33.380 · Cotter Ellis

Working.

00:08:33.380 — 00:08:38.460 · Matt Hoffman

Up, you know, new songs versus kind of stepping into performing existing songs?

00:08:38.460 — 00:08:56.320 · Cotter Ellis

It's been awesome. Yeah, and in a way, I prefer it, um, just because I think one of the, one of the weirdest parts was going into a situation where this band was already successful for their sound, And

00:08:57.520 — 00:09:23.479 · Cotter Ellis

like I brought a new voice to the table, a different voice. And so it was like trying to balance, like doing everything justice. Um, and like expanding my horizons to, to learn some of the drum approaches that were there before I was in the band, but also bring my own voice and not just, like, try to copy what it was.

Not that I even could. Yeah, but

00:09:24.720 — 00:10:42.850 · Cotter Ellis

yeah, so with the new songs, it's like, oh, now I can just have a fresh slate and fucking do my thing. And, and like, the discussion is, is so open in a way that's like extremely healthy. It's not like someone's like, you know, I think you should do something a little differently here. It's like truly fucking.

And it's just a rare quality of bands to have, like everyone chiming in on each other's parts. And it'd be like, no resentment. Yeah, it's just like works because we're all just stoked on it and we like each other's input. So like, it's been super fucking fun and it right off the bat you know our they before I even played my first show.

So there were some new tunes, uh, that I wrote the drum parts for. Oh, super cool. And, you know, like, give it time. I was there for. And you know how it ends. A couple of tunes that were that were already ready to go before I even started playing shows. But now there's a good amount and there's going to be more, um, and yeah, and then also, just like I've kind of developed my voice within the context of the band in the improv too, instead of trying to do things that they used to do, we've all kind of moved forward into new territory.

Um, yeah. So yeah, and it did take farm. I feel like it's definitely landing in a good space right now, and it's only get better for sure.

00:10:42.970 — 00:11:03.620 · Matt Hoffman

So how can you tell me about the difference between, you know, being out there and kind of fully improvising? Uh, you know, in a purely original moment with us versus the kind of thing that you do with everyone orchestra, where it's again, totally improvised, but different a lot of ways. Just. Can you tell me about the differences for sure?

00:11:03.660 — 00:13:38.369 · Cotter Ellis

Yeah. I mean, both are awesome. Yeah, I think it's like both have. Well, both are. You're diving into the unknown. I think the beauty of what Matt does, like his role is that he's really kind of creating songs, and it's chaotic in the sense that, like, I've generally never played with, it's usually like one person that I'm like, oh, I've played with this guy before.

Everyone else is from all different types of bands, has a comes from a different world. You know, it's not like a bunch of jam band guys up there. I'm playing with the bass player or Galactic. Yeah, a band I've been listening to since I was in high school, whose drummer I've idolized since I was a little kid.

Oh yeah. And so it was pretty fucking crazy and just like, shit like that. And then last night, there were some guys that I didn't really know that blew my mind. So in that sense, it's like I really have no idea what to expect. It's not this, like, built like, um, you know, like this practiced language and chemistry like I have with goose, where it's like, we work really hard and we play a ton together.

We develop, um, the language that we use in these conversations with each other as friends, just like you would be chatting with your buddies. Yeah. You've known forever. Um, versus, like, you know, meeting new people in a social situation and then, like, being like, oh, all these people are super. Have a bunch of crazy cool stuff to say.

That's really inspiring. And then the thing that makes it all work is definitely back. Oh for sure, because it's like he doesn't sometimes he doesn't even do that much. But the fact that he's up there and he's the one who's like, it's time to fucking move on. Or like change the dynamic or like with, uh, whatever.

How many pieces do we have last night? Eight. Mhm. It's like with an eight piece band. Yeah. Improv. That's going to be a shit show without a guy being like. All right everybody shut the fuck up. Yeah. It's this person's turn and like or like you like you start this one, you come up with a line A and B section, and then obviously having a singer like Kanika, last time I did it, it was her and Jen Hardwick.

And like the first time I did it, it was Ryan Mont Blue. Oh. Which were just so quick on their feet. Yep. That's got to be the most impressive and hard position in this band. Yeah. Is coming up with, like, verses and hooks. I could never fucking do that. So without that, I feel like it would just be a bunch of guys kind of

00:13:39.610 — 00:14:43.700 · Cotter Ellis

fucking around to a certain degree, and that kind of like, makes it a song. Yep. So he's making songs up there, improv songs, and with solo sections, it's kind of how I look at it, rather than a jam where you're really just diving into the unknown and trying to, like, build something up and like taking tiny cues from, like, what you're hearing in a moment.

It can switch on a dime. The possibilities are endless. But you can, like, rely on these guys that you trust. Sure. Whereas, you know, with everyone orchestra, it's like you're you're trusting these people you don't know and they're always great musicians. And then, Matt, to make sure that it stays structured and it always works out.

I was in the car with, uh, with Tim Reynolds, who's never done one, and, you know, him and his manager were asking like, like, how is this going to go? Is this going to be okay? Yeah. I'm like, yeah. In theory, you're like, this is gonna be a shit show. But I was like, man, every single time I do it, I'm like, it works out.

I'm like, well, like, yo, that song is sick. Yeah. Tim with the.

00:14:43.700 — 00:14:45.780 · Matt Hoffman

12 string to like. Yeah. Really good.

00:14:45.820 — 00:15:03.080 · Cotter Ellis

Yeah. Really cool to play. Tim. Yeah, yeah. Obviously the the dub connection with goose. Oh yeah. Pretty strong for the last year. And I've. I never really knew Dave and Dave's music. Like I had a very shallow knowledge. Now I'm fucking hooked.

00:15:03.360 — 00:15:05.880 · Matt Hoffman

I mean, this was insane and nasty.

00:15:05.880 — 00:15:34.040 · Cotter Ellis

I always knew that. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But I just didn't know how deep it catalog went. I watched, like, a concert, and I think it was Central Park. Oh, that's on YouTube. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, yeah, it's fucking sad. And then I got to be open up for him at the Gorge and and and MSG. Yeah. But the gorge, I was like side stage with Carter's in your mix just like fucking 20ft away from them watching them play and was like, yo, this is so cool man.

It was one of the coolest experiences I've ever had.

00:15:34.080 — 00:15:34.880 · Matt Hoffman

It's amazing.

00:15:34.920 — 00:15:41.720 · Cotter Ellis

So yeah, I'm I'm totally sold. Oh, yeah, they are kick ass band. Dave is a great dude.

00:15:41.760 — 00:16:00.530 · Matt Hoffman

Oh, yeah. For sure. He he seems to be by, like, by every account possible. Sure. Um, so do you guys, uh, you know, I know with Ian mats up there calling the shots. Uh, do you guys have, like, mics that use on stage to communicate with each other during jams at goose, or. It's all just non-verbal.

00:16:00.730 — 00:17:51.430 · Cotter Ellis

Yeah, we so we have talkback mikes because goose is all in has in-ear monitors. Okay. But we don't use them to like dictate where the music is going. Mhm. Like very rarely. But usually the only time we use them during a song is if we're like calling an audible and what we're about to go into uh, so then we're like hey like hang out in this vibe for the outro because we're going to go straight into this other song.

It's usually because we're like, oops, that jam is 35 minutes long. We have to cut down our setlists drastically and just go straight into whatever we think the the set calls for before we ran out of time, but like, we're not like. Like, all right, now go to the floor. I think a lot of people think that. And I kind of I don't like the idea of that in our context.

I think some other bands like Totally fine, but I think in our in our world, it seems like we don't want to be having conversations that the audience isn't included in. We don't want to be having hidden conversations like, because I think the purpose of especially the jams is like, hey, we're all fucking experiencing this together.

Yeah, the audience is influencing what's happening here. And so all equals in this, whatever the fuck it is we're doing right now, in this moment and wherever we're going to go. So and then it's like between songs, we're like, it's usually like only five minutes left in the set. What are we gonna do? And then sometimes when the when you guys see us just kind of sitting there like fucking idiots between songs, it's because we're like, uh, I don't know what.

What song do we have that's five minutes long. How we can fit this in? So yeah, that's the talk backs generally are for and everyone orchestra. I was the only one on ears last night, so. Oh, that's certainly not happening. Wow. It's all just. It's musician shit, man.

00:17:51.470 — 00:18:04.830 · Matt Hoffman

Yeah. Hell, yeah. Well, so I know you're. You know, you mentioned being a big improv guy, but it wasn't always the dead. Well, what what other kind of improvizational stuff were you into coming up?

00:18:04.870 — 00:18:22.630 · Cotter Ellis

I mean, like, when I was a kid, I was raised on, like, mostly like, funk, soul, Motown stuff. I had, like, a rebellious, uh, punk phase. Not really any improv. The closest I got to improv is I really got into modal jazz.

00:18:22.670 — 00:18:22.990 · Matt Hoffman

Uh.

00:18:23.030 — 00:18:28.310 · Cotter Ellis

Through, like, I really loved Herbie Hancock from, like, pretty early on.

00:18:28.350 — 00:18:28.750 · Matt Hoffman

Okay.

00:18:28.790 — 00:22:26.370 · Cotter Ellis

And then, you know, like, listening to, like, you know, live maiden voyage was probably as close as I got. I mean, that's just pretty similar, really. And, like, seeing her be alive, it's like, man, this guy is just leading jams. These are just. Yeah, fucking sonic explorations, dude. And. But then my buddy when I was like 15 was like, hey, you want to go see fish?

And I was like, oh, sweet. Yeah. Like, are they good? He was like, they have the six song farmhouse on the radio. You're gonna love them. And then I was immediately like, super hooked. I went home and I downloaded a bunch of live fish from LimeWire. Oh, nice. And, uh, then I started. Then people started giving me CDs, and it was just like, this is my shit.

Yeah, because I was a Zappa guy. Uh. For sure. Yeah. And so what's your favorite? Or you know that you're listening to the most, say, like Arab Zappa? That's a tough one. I'm. I could literally talk for, like, an hour and a half right now. I've been, um. I've been, uh, listening to a lot of baby snakes recently.

The. Yeah, dude. I mean, like, Shaker booty was in my car. CD was in my car for, like, ten years. Yeah, I know that record so. Well, that was my way. Very similar to the Baby Snakes era. Yeah. Like that. Like a whole. Like Bozzio. Tommy Mars thing was so fucking sick, I think. Like the earlier. Like when he had Chester on drums like that, uh, the like, um, the Roxy band, uh, is such a fucking sick band with Ruth, like, just the one size fits all band a little earlier, and then, like, the vaudeville shit with the turtles guys.

Yeah. Is. I have that CD in my car forever, and then, like, then you have, like, Vinnie Colaiuta coming in for Joe's garage, huh? That is fucking wild. Yeah, they got a two new boy, the verses in 1916 time signature, which as a drummer is just like this is stupid that Zappa can make that work listenable at all.

It's like, oh yeah, it's heavy math rock shit. But yeah, the fact that it's entertaining for the average person who has no fucking idea when 1916 means time signature wise, that's the beauty of Zappa. And then in the 80s, Chad Wackerman, uh, they're all such good drummers that I can't choose. I would say early 80s is probably my least favorite.

Okay, but everything else I love and like the very twangy early on stuff sure is just like they were still finding their voice. Don't listen to that very often. Yeah, but probably like the early to mid 70s. Yeah, seven 70s is what I spend most of my time with. Um, for sure. I always wonder, like. Right. Imagine Terry Bozzio playing with everyone orchestra or something.

Like bloody bonkers. Yeah. Like, what would I mean? Because a lot of us guys play in different kinds of improv. That's like. Sure. That would be, um. That'd be wild. I think like another thing too, though. And I was talking about this with some of the guys. Um, it's like part of everyone orchestra is that no one's really the star.

Mhm. Whereas, like Bozzio, such an explosive personality, both on the drums and just like as a guy that it would be like he'd be the star. Yeah. Like a band. Especially a band. Like last night. It was like everybody was so low key. And then these singers are the ones, like in the spotlight, if anyone. Yeah.

You know, just because of the nature of that being singers and doing the vocals. But yeah, I would be I would love to see Bosio do improv. I mean, there's there's a tune on, uh, Shake Your Booty called Rat Tamago, I think. Oh, yeah. It's just Patrick O'Hearn and Bozzio. Just, like, fucking around. Yeah. And it's so sick.

It's just like dancing grooves. Yeah. Which are my favorite. That's why I love Fishman. I feel like he just dances. It's so expressive. Bozzio is the same way, so it would be awesome. I'd be there for sure. Oh, heck yeah, me too. Well, so

00:22:27.810 — 00:29:43.060 · Cotter Ellis

I guess as you've been, um, was it more kind of like Phish was your way into more of your jam band or stuff before, you know, say dead? Like, for me, it was Phish. I, I got into I saw my first show in like December of 97. I was a junior in high school. It's awesome. Um, yeah. And like, that was sort of it. The dead, like I'm still learning dead at this point.

I mean, you definitely I didn't I knew I always felt like, um. Like kind of the whole thing is that you're there for it, right? You know, like, it's not like I. For me, at least, it's not like, oh, I love the record so much. Even though they both bands have great records. Yeah. Um, it was that I went to that show and had the experience.

It was in part of that fucking circus of a community and was just like, this is just more than just the music and seeing it live, like the whole experience of going to the show was that this is the best thing ever. And so and obviously Jerry died when I was like five years old. Yeah. So like I didn't have that with the dead.

And so yeah, Phish for sure. And then I always I got into the dead. I had a lot of friends who loved the dead. So like I was kind of getting more influence. I was like eating acid and listening to old Grateful Dead and was like, I get it, this is sick. And then, um, and then once I started to when I got out of college, I moved to Burlington.

It was like everyone was like, oh, come playing in my Grateful Dead band. Yeah, played in like a billion Grateful Dead bands. So now I Know Everything by JGB and the Grateful Dead and got to play pretty much like hundreds of songs. Yeah. And so that was really my way in To the Dead, I think like as a, as a listener and it's definitely fish, but I think the dead also like there is a beauty, especially to like the ballads and the soul of the Grateful Dead that, um, you don't necessarily get at a for sure.

Sure. And in like, you know, in the community to the, the my experience with the fish community has been a lot of amazing people. Yeah. And it was like I also started going to festivals. So it wasn't even just fish like copepod. I loved them. They were all my early favorites, Like turquoise was was amazing.

It was. There was a ton of bands from the like 2012 jam band festival era twiddle. Um, and then moved to Vermont and like the jam scene was crushing a bunch of smaller bands there. So it kind of all happened pretty quick for me. Years of going, getting into the jam scene and then being like, I am now, this is my life.

Yeah, yeah. Is, uh, is, um, is Rob copper's band with Adrian? Um. Night zero, where they based out in Vermont. They are. Okay. It's funny, because I was actually the first drummer in that band. Really? It was kind of just like a one off gig, uh, at this place called Stowe Cider in Stowe. Oh, sure. And, uh, so I, I forget we put the gig together, but I was on drums.

But I love, you know, Gub, Rob, Tapas and Leon. And then like, the next week I was like going on goose tours and they got Adrian and then there's just a fucking green team. Yeah. And I'm so glad that they kept it going. And now they're writing originals. Yeah. And they're a sick band. But yeah, they're they're around.

They, they they came to my updated Grateful Dead show last week. Oh, yeah. Burlington. And they all just came out because they were so nice. Oh. Super cool. Yeah. See those boys all the time. Oh, that's most of them a lot. Yeah. Rob I just played a bunch of improv shows with. Oh. Super town. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I saw I saw him do, um, an all improvised show with, uh, with Eli, uh, Coleman and Johnny Kimock and this, um, they've got this trio, but they also played an all improvised show with compo.

That was just awesome. Yeah. Dude. W.K.. Yeah. Yeah. He's on band. Yeah. Jon's the. They're all the homie. Yeah. Coleman's actually the first. Uh, we're probably going to release our first episode next week. Coleman was our first, uh, our first guest, so he's a great guest. Are you gonna love that guy?

He's got a lot to say. He really does. He's a beautiful human being. Yeah, he's a wonderful guy. You've played, uh, dungeon crawl with him right in Burlington. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I want to do it. It's at the, um. It's at the, uh, the diner. Yeah, yeah. So city. Yeah. So I played there before, and that's actually where I met John.

He just came out to see my home. He came through Philly. Oh, that's that of the kindness of his heart. Came just to check us out. Which wonderful guy? More people did that? Yeah. The music scene would just be healthier. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, man. And like, he's been the homie ever since then. Muscle tough came up to Burlington and played with us a couple times.

Oh, nice. Oh I'm sick man. Yeah. But yeah he came up and did. That was the first comp improv gig I did in Burlington was with John. Oh, wow. Maybe like two months ago, huh? And then we just kept doing them without. When John left, we got different bass players. We got Chuck from Dope Pot on a lot of them. Oh, wow.

And so it's just like the trio improv. But the first one was, was John. And I guess it was considered a dungeon crawl. Yeah, yeah. That's right. I'm trying to convince him to come to a suburban dungeon crawl. I live like, um, so we're in the. Like, sort of western Philly, like biscuit suburbs. I live in the north of Philly.

Like Ween suburbs and Bucks County. Um, and I'm trying to convince them to. To do a dungeon crawl up there. We'll see. Yeah, yeah, they should take it on the road, man. It's super cool. It's. Well, like, I don't know if you've heard any of these, uh, tunes that Reed Mathis put out last year. The, like the Dylan tunes.

No. Um, I want to. Yeah. He released this podcast and released a different, like, song to go along each week with it. It's all about improvization and it's all just different arrangements of debt tunes. It's like him, um, Jay Lane McDougal and this guy, um, the jazz thug playing synth bass. He, like, injured his arm.

That's a whole other story. Uh, but it's like totally different arrangements of dead tunes. And they played, um, they did a set in Unlimited Devotion here a few years ago. It was fucking amazing. It was Magner read. Maybe brownie, and maybe Matt was on drones, actually. Um, but it's like, yeah, it's it's cool how, like, you see, with the dads music or Dylan's music or other people's like the cool stuff that people can, you know, do with it and continue to make it interesting.

Sure. Um, Reid is maybe the best. Yeah. At Pure Improv. He's. Yeah, he's a wild bass player, man. He's more a guitar player now. Anything else? Like for the last, probably 6 or 7 years. And he's. Of course he's a fucking great. Yeah, you know for sure. Yeah. I mean, him and John both. Yeah. He didn't, like, take the bass to that level.

Yep. So it definitely makes sense. Yeah. That's my favorite thing about Coleman is, uh, just like an a muscle. Tough show of, like, you close your eyes. It's like, I don't know who's doing what. Like, I know that's Joe, but, yeah, they all rise. Who the hell knows? Yeah, dude. Yeah. Um, thanks again for making the time.

That's just fine. Yeah, it was good to, uh, good to catch up with you.